How is it that we can elect an african american president (yes, I did vote for Obama), yet still not allow homosexuals the human right to marry? I am less than thrilled with the outcome of Prop 8, and honestly disgusted. This wasn't about "gay marriages" being taught in school. This wasn't about "gays" suing your church. This was about keeping a law in effect that allows homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals, the same rights as humans. The right to marry the one you love.
How brainwashed has the church system made this country? Being homosexual isn't their choice. The science is all there. All I keep hearing is "Marriage is the word of god. It's a sacred religious ceremony." I call bullshit. If it's such a powerful "word," then why is the divorce rate over 50%? Maybe they should check the sacredness of this said "word" and think of a new excuse. I doubt that half the hetero couples that get married are religious anyway. If anything, homosexuals are less likely to take this "word" for granted seeing as it's something they haven't had the freedom of doing until last May. But now that freedom has been revoked. This proposition is threatening to amend the constitution and state that marriage is only allowed between a man and a woman.
It's selfishness, ignorance, and blatant discrimination.
I find it hard to believe that this is "gods will."
November 5, 2008
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I come from a Christian background and republican state so I know these types of people and what they feel as to why they say "Yes" to Pro. 8.
ReplyDeleteIt kills me that we live in a country where every US citizen is given the right to choose their own religion, but the Christian view is still superior to all of them. Don't get me wrong I'm glad a lot of people believe in my faith, but this country isn't founded any more on in. We're a country of many faiths.
Just because I believe in Jesus does not give me the right to tell someone (who does not sharing my faith) that because I think it's wrong it can never be. God gives us all the choice in the life to do in our lives what we want. Just because I believe in something doesn't make me right over your life. Faith is not about suppression, but freedom.
Very irritated with the CA vote.
I really appreciate your outlook. I wish I could say the same for my mom. She wasn't even raised with religion (neither was I), yet she continues to use it to defend YES on prop 8. I find it hard to take her opinion seriously when she lacks the faith that she's using to back up her ideals.
ReplyDeleteWe really need more people with open religious views like you. Thanks for your feedback. :)
Fear is a common response for this sort of issue. I read a report that those who know a gay person voted "no" and those that didn't voted "yes". It's all about knowing one gay person before you can understand and accept the community as a whole. Through that one person you can see things beyond your own eyes.
ReplyDeletePeople fear what they don't know or understand. When they get a choice they almost alway pick the status quo.
ReplyDeleteIn my day the hot button issue was abortion - I prefer the term "choice". After 30+ years we are still fighting over it although almost everytime it comes up for a vote, the vote almost always goes for choice. I think the same will happen for gay rights but it is going to go slowly - TOO SLOWLY - but we will get there.
When I was a kid there were lots of laws that limited the rights of just about every person of color. While most of these laws are now gone, there is still a segment of society that believes that somehow color defines who you are as a person. It seems crazy to me.
Over a beer we will talk about our family and how they shaped our view of the world.
There is no definitive proof that being homosexual is genetic. Science has theories but nothing is proven without a doubt. I believe that sexual orientation is a choice, pure and simple. I believe that there exists a Supreme Creator. This Creator has also established laws to live by. One of them being sexual attraction between males and females. I refuse to believe this Creator would allow people to be born genetically incapable of obeying His laws. That would be unjust.
ReplyDeleteNo one can say definitively that sexual orientation is genetic or by choice. That is why I say I believe it is a choice. And saying that science has proven otherwise is just plain false.
Think back to the first time you had a crush. Or the first time you saw someone that made you heart flutter. I was in 1st grade. His name was Patrick McCarthy. I didn't just decided to like this person. Nor have I "chosen" to like any boys. It just happened. I can't explain why I'm attracted to a certain type of man, or just men in general. But I am. This wasn't a choice, it was just natural. And it would be the same if I were attracted to women. It's a natural behavior. You have no control over it, nor can you change it.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of choice or not, these are human beings. Like you and I, they live their lives day to day like any other person. They all have 5 senses, they all have muscles, nerves, organs, and they all have feelings. You say you believe in this "Supreme creator." A supreme creator who you believe in based on faith, not fact. If you have the right to choose what to believe in regards to religion or faith, then why can't they have the choice (since you say it's a choice) to choose who to love? And by loving that person, why shouldn't they be allowed to marry like every other person who chooses to love?
Your argument is ridiculous and has no validity. You're trying to argue your "faith" in a higher power.. a higher power who supposedly wrote this miraculous words about how no man should lie with another man HUNDREDS of years ago. Could you imagine if we all lived the way they did in those times?? We've given equality rights to everyone else - Blacks, women, etc. How is this any different?
even if it is a choice, it shouldn't matter. people should be able to marry who they want. if you fall in love with someone of the same sex, you should be able to marry them. plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteI too base my beliefs in Christianity so it's upsetting to see others "using" that as their reason to deny gay marriage. It's your choice whether to take the Bible or other religious doctrine "as is" or to interpret it's messages based on your personal beliefs and how mankind has evolved since the original was composed. I have chosen the later. In fact I mostly base my life on what Jesus stood for as the judgements and harshness of God don't always add much to my life. Instead, Jesus preached equality and love to all which makes complete sense to me.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of whether you think being gay is a choice or not that choice should be available to all and allow for the same rights as everyone else. We choose to live in free America and choose to vote laws into effect that we wish to live by. I can understand voting to make moral-based laws such as murder, theft etc. because they are generic and are, for all intents and purposes, accepted by all. If anyone commits murder they will all be prosecuted accordingly (unless of course the jury has a bias). On the other hand I am upset that we chose to vote in a law than denies a specific type of person a right that we all should be able to enjoy. Simply being gay doesn't harm anyone. You can be free to dissapprove of being gay as you and/or your religion would like but I don't see how denying someone else helps you at all. Fear is the only thing allowing people from being so worried about gay marriage and what their kids will think etc. Be a responsible parent and talk to your kids and they will be fine. Sheltering them is far worse than anything a gay marriage might do to them.
Lastly, even if you would like to use religion as your reason... what ever happened to separation of church and state? Using religion to make decisions which effect the government seems old school. What right will we vote to overturn next? Women's right to vote? Interracial marriage? Maybe we'll vote to choose only 1 official religion... imagine how those who used religion to back their Yes vote would feel if their religion was yanked away from them...
OK, I'm done. ;)
Many of you make very valid points and I can see why you think the way you do. However, I believe what I believe. I have a right to vote to make my society righteous and in line with my beliefs. Unfortunately, I believe homosexuality is a sin. I don't believe women voting is a sin or interracial marriage is a sin either. So that defeats your argument simplynutty.
ReplyDeleteI voted YES because I prefer that sinful behavior (based on Jesus' teaching) not be permitted by law. That is my right as an American, just as yours is also.
I know many of you are outraged to read that homosexuality is a sin, but marriage is taught as only between a man and a woman. Period.
Lisa you state you argument for equal rights for blacks and women years ago. I also believe that was wrong to limit the right of people based solely on their gender or ethnicity. This is because no where did the Lord teach it was wrong to be a women or non-white. However, homosexuality is different because sexual attractionit was not intended to be between people of the same sex.
Now you can say that my beliefs are based on faith, but also there is not definitely proof showing otherwise. You want you believe is just as valid as what I believe in.
I do appreciate the exchanging of ideas though. I think it is good that people care about our society and have the will do act for change. I wish you all the best in all that you do. I hope we can also have friendly discussions and not results to vulgarities and disrespectful remarks. Lisa Marie's blog does not deserve that kind of banter.
In response to ilikeagila:
ReplyDeleteAgree to disagree. I respect your ideals, even though I don't agree with them. There is no sense in either of us going on and on b/c we'll just end up in circles. I'm glad we were able to both express our opinions, and I appreciate your output. :)
In response to ilikeagila:
ReplyDeleteI can't help but shake my head when reading your comment... Yes, whatever you choose, for whatever reason you choose, is your right.
But the base idea that I get from your opinion is that the law should reflect what you think is as sin in your religion. I'm confused as to why you throw in rights as an individual, but try to curtail that with religion in law.
Constitutional law was not meant to reflect a religious belief. They are not intending to define "sin".
And when you said, "marriage is taught as only between a man and a woman. Period."
Period? By who? Marriage, by definition is defined by a union of two items. And it being "taught"... There is no official curriculum for it to be taught. The only places I've ever heard addressing male to female union is in churches and religious schools. I actually remember being taught that marriage could be of the same sex (although, my teacher did admit that it's not a legally recognized union).
I fully agree with the analogy of race to this subject. It's easy to forget that not long ago, people said consorting with black people was sin too. Look at where we are now.
I fully understand that your faith drives your opinion. But the difference is that as a country, our nation and our laws were meant for equality. Regardless of religious beliefs. You're imposing your beliefs on others. Those who wish equality, just want the same rights you do. They don't want you to do as they do.
But, just as Lisa said, we'll just go in circles... I have an open mind and I acknowledge rights, be it the right to disagree on a subject or the right to be given the same equal rights as any of us heterosexual citizens.
In response to MacGyver:
ReplyDeleteExactly! Well said. :)